Excuse me if I would gDrive, but we are not off-topic talking about jb-king here?
Would not it be better to make a section dedicated to the clones, although I do not think deserves it ....
WHAT THE FUCK?! hack_what has gone mad, but meh, can't blame the dude though - there's too many retards everywhere you look sadly.
This scene has a tendency to do that to people. Sadly, there are legitimate debates to be had, but they often get buried under all the misinformation, trolling, pessimism, and scapegoating that most default to.
Somewhat unrelated, but I was recently informed of Neimod's progress in the 3DS scene. There's a massive thread about it on another site and I'd say about 99% of the conversation going on in there mirrors what you'd read here (even though they're completely different topics). I'm thoroughly convinced it's human nature to say crazy shit as soon as you put a keyboard and monitor in front of someone.
Actually Nikola87, this has turned into another business ethics thread if you read the last few posts on this thread.
As for random#guy, if you put a retard in front of a PC with a keyboard, a mouse and a monitor, they feel that they have this sense of invincibility and they then use that mentality as an excuse to throw retarded insults like the following:
- U USE TRU BLU LYK A DILDO YOU BLUE-FACED FAGGOT!
- U MASTURBATE WITH CHEAP TRU BLU CLONE YOU CHEAP/FINANCIALLY DEPRIVED FAGGOT!
- IF U NO BEHAVE IMMATURELY LIKE US U R A RETARDED FAGGOT!
- U FUCK MOMMY N DADDY 24/7 U SEXUALLY DEPRIVED FAGGOT!
Actually Nikola87, this has turned into another business ethics thread if you read the last few posts on this thread.
As for random#guy, if you put a retard in front of a PC with a keyboard, a mouse and a monitor, they feel that they have this sense of invincibility and they then use that mentality as an excuse to throw retarded insults like the following:
- U USE TRU BLU LYK A DILDO YOU BLUE-FACED FAGGOT!
- U MASTURBATE WITH CHEAP TRU BLU CLONE YOU CHEAP/FINANCIALLY DEPRIVED FAGGOT!
- IF U NO BEHAVE IMMATURELY LIKE US U R A RETARDED FAGGOT!
- U FUCK MOMMY N DADDY 24/7 U SEXUALLY DEPRIVED FAGGOT!
...and it goes on and on!
Also, I'll leave this here:
never figured out the point behind the "TB ONLY costs $10 more, it's not that much" well.. if you're anything like me... a poor, broke, near starving college student... $10 is a shit ton of money, I can stretch $10 into a weeks worth of food (it's not pretty... trust me, it's a miracle my stomach hasn't errupted by now)
That'd be like putting someone down for wearing generic clothes, as opposed to something like.. American Eagle "The shirt ONLY costs $30 more, it's not THAT much"
hell, why do you think kids go ape shit when they get $10 (I mean.. kid as in before 13), if they get $100 my god they think they've hit the jackpot.
I'm pretty sure no one here makes more than $800,000 in a year (after taxes, before bonuses).. guess what, $50,000 to them.. equivalent to the nickel in your pocket, to you $50,000 means your family gets to live pretty decently doesn't it?
Money only seems like it's "not that much" when you have tons of it to dwarf a particular value (I admit, when I worked at a security firm before they downsized and I was pulling in $1500 in a month for working weekends only, yeah $60 would have been a drop in the bucket, $10, wouldn't have even crossed my mind)
Just.. to put things into perspective for the more.. financially gifted of the forums
never figured out the point behind the "TB ONLY costs $10 more, it's not that much" well.. if you're anything like me... a poor, broke, near starving college student... $10 is a shit ton of money, I can stretch $10 into a weeks worth of food (it's not pretty... trust me, it's a miracle my stomach hasn't errupted by now)
That'd be like putting someone down for wearing generic clothes, as opposed to something like.. American Eagle "The shirt ONLY costs $30 more, it's not THAT much"
hell, why do you think kids go ape shit when they get $10 (I mean.. kid as in before 13), if they get $100 my god they think they've hit the jackpot.
I'm pretty sure no one here makes more than $800,000 in a year (after taxes, before bonuses).. guess what, $50,000 to them.. equivalent to the nickel in your pocket, to you $50,000 means your family gets to live pretty decently doesn't it?
Money only seems like it's "not that much" when you have tons of it to dwarf a particular value (I admit, when I worked at a security firm before they downsized and I was pulling in $1500 in a month for working weekends only, yeah $60 would have been a drop in the bucket, $10, wouldn't have even crossed my mind)
Just.. to put things into perspective for the more.. financially gifted of the forums
My thoughts exactly - that, and certain people don't know how to draw up a logical argument nowadays!
Just.. to put things into perspective for the more.. financially gifted of the forums
What exactly is your point? Because some people is having financial problems, and 10$ is a lot, we must pity them, and stop to complain about the price and if it's a fair price? Following your point (and your financial trouble) either if TB was 15 dollars and jbking 12, was something you was going to find as impossible.
So, what exactly do you want? A free solution so you can deal with your videogames for free?
You know, there are billion people who can barely dream to go in front of a store with videogames inside. They can barely eat. Damn, i want a Star Trek Replicator, so we can have all the food we want for free.
If videogames are too much expensive for your life, i would suggest to focus to fix your troubles, turning off your computer and not logging on this website, till when you're financially stable, either for a future 15$ TB ( or anything requires money, like buy an original disk, before play a backup).
You're wrong thinking most of the users are more rich than you. Instead most download them, because not able to buy an original 100$ new game. World crysis, ever heard?
I'm not being a dick, i'm just wondering what's your point, with this post.
Last edited by Bartholomy; 04-13-2012 at 07:44 PM.
Yeah, it's me Dj Barth "One TrueBlue to rule them all, One Browser to find them,
One TB CFW to bring them all and in the Internal HDD bind them
In the Land of BarthMordor where Modding lie"
We can go back and forth on this for months I would imagine, but the simple fact of the matter is we have differing opinions. My personal beliefs is that a scene should be free and open for everyone. The devs like to solve the problems, the users praise the devs for solving such problems and use said devs applications. I do NOT believe devs are just people we should mooch off of, like I said, I gladly donate to developers whom I've used their services and they made an impact on me. If I felt devs were slaves for the community, I wouldn't aspire to be one myself. Knowledge in the 360 scene is, for the most part, open and free. The RGH was documented and released for all to see how it worked, the custom dashboards are free, but not necessarily open (I would assume Microsoft could patch things if such things were open). This may also be the case with TB's method of decrypting eboots, I don't know. And I realize the suppression was already there to begin with, I openly criticized the so-called "elites" then too.
It boils down to, you like getting newer games, whatever it takes, even if it is furthering the suppression of knowledge. I couldn't care less about games.
I would like the scene to be free and open so it could flourish into something great, you don't seem to care as long as games are easily "backup-able."
Like I said we could go back and forth about this for months finding points that support our respective positions, but we will never agree. No need to write novels to on the internet to show the rest of the world our specific view on this issue. Might as well agree to disagree.
And what are the consequences for when a dev doesn't make their work free and open? Do we just disown them and kick them out? Rage about them messing with out Kum Bah Yah? Isn't it their choice what they do with their work? Can't we just accept their choice and take an alternative? If we can't do that, then any gratitude we hold isn't truly sincere, since we expect it and punish if our expectations aren't met. Case in point. Many have the attitude about True Blue and others that "if you don't give it to me, and make it free, I'll find a way to screw you over and take it by force if I have to." We don't act that way anywhere else (hopefully), so why should we stoop to transgressing other's rights? How can force be good in any society? A relationship based on force or threat of force is definitely unhealthy.
Second, even if everything else you said was true, buying a TB dongle or other DRM dongle, would not equate to suppression of knowledge. And not buying them doesn't stifle suppression either. Just like buying those dongles does not automatically equate to piracy. The Ps3 is a gaming machine, so why should it not be able to play games? Doesn't it seem much more efficient to buy a computer if you have no interests in games. Even the wii which has been good with homebrew has no problem playing what it was originally made to play. They didn't sacrifice games, so why should we sacrifice games to have what amounts to a limited computer. I don't think gamers should have to decide between homebrew and games. Wasn't the Ps3 scene started with a similar goal, so gamers didn't have to decide between games and otheros?
If the DRM dongles did not exist, the ps3 scene would be exactly where it was a year ago, with no improvement simply because the underlying problems had not been rectified. True Blue and the DRM Dongles are a red herring. Blaming True Blue and indeed blaming gamers themselves for buying TB will get us nowhere. What needs to be done is take all of the information we have and make a database. We do have PS3devwiki, but there does seem to be some misinformation on there so I say start fresh. The scene needs to be independent and by that I mean that anybody is ready to pick up the where others left off. Think of Linux and how there are many different people working on the different aspects from the kernel down to the application. If we build what would amount to an army of hackers, there would be no fear of suppression. We don't have to put devs on an open source leash if there are plenty of devs to voluntarily, under no coercion, release the stuff free and open source. Then we could afford the closed source dev because without fear we could get the information ourselves. I also don't think we should exclude the closed source devs either. The scene should be inclusive, not exclusive and people should have a choice to go open or closed source, free or at a cost. Exclusion and limiting choices, that is where the suppression really occurs.
Originally Posted by Digital-Spooker
I might be one of the minority... but yeah.. my HDD only contains my own purchases, mainly because I'm a lazy cunt and don't like having to swap discs xD (plus it's far more convenient to bring the PS3 into the college on short days), mainly pointing out this just to prove your generalization wrong (as generalizations are almost always bad and/or inaccurate)
The thing though.. piracy is a league of it's own, it doesn't hurt anything (it's been shown fairly well, especially in areas where DRM doesn't exist.. such as indie games.. like.. minecraft, zero DRM.. made millions (or was it billions?)) what's wrong is TB is profiting off of copyright infringement.
Buying used panties is harmless, stealing them from peoples homes and selling them is wrong.
Your analogy is flawed. For one you compared TB to theft, rather than copyright infringement which is what I think you were wanting. That analogy would be "buying used panties is harmless, buying a device that allows you to wear panties and subsequently stealing them from people's houses is wrong." You admitted that you have backups. You claim you bought the discs so you're legitimate. What about if TB user A buys all of his discs too. Dean made Multiman, Rogero made Rogero manager, and other devs made other backup managers, are they responsible for any piracy committed by their users? What if they accepted donations, wouldn't that mean they profited of of piracy as well? I say Dean is no more responsible for someone pirating a game than TB is and vice versa. For people on cfw, they had a choice of homebrew or playing newer games. They may have downloaded the games beforehand, or bought them before hand, TB only enables the games to be played, and even then, that is only half the job, the other half of which is the backup manager. Therefore, you can buy a TB and still support your favorite game developers and not have to give up homebrew. In this way, it is possible TB actually helped game developers because of gamers waiting until they are playable with homebrew. Obviously the same arguments used for or against piracy are still in play, there is no difference.
Originally Posted by Digital-Spooker
there's a canyon of a difference between the end user downloading them for themselves, and locking them down with DRM and SELLING them, surely you must be able to see that...
The same could be said about flash carts and modchips. Strangely the better your service, the more bad you are doing. But the argument could be made that True Blue and those other things are selling a device to play the eboots rather than the eboots themselves, just like selling a flashcart as a device that can play roms rather than selling the roms themselves. The True Blue case is unique in that True Blue is the ones cracking the eboots they naturally made them only compatible with their dongle so in that regard there is drm. Yet like I said, they are the ones cracking the eboots, if you or I were the ones cracking them, then we could decide to do the same or do different. Moaning about their choice is futile and like before people are responsible for their own actions and not others. The best we can do is crack the original eboots, and since they are still on the internet and they are still on the pressed discs, nobody is stopping someone from cracking them for free cfw.
If True Blue is to be rejected, some serious work has to happen in the scene. As it is, the ps3 scene has no right to say anything about ethics and morals. There isn't a sinless person among us in this scene. I once learned that no matter how clean you are, there will always be someone chastising or looking down on you for something. Sometimes they are right and we truly are at fault in those cases. Others judge you just as much as you judge others. You can either try to get the highest horse, or realize that everybody makes mistakes and forgo judgement in favor of understanding. In the real world, there is no highest horse because the top is the bottom and the bottom is the top. A cycle of endless judgements and being judged.
You talk about a Linux kind of community? Well, linux is an OS, opensource and free to be enhanced. Now i ask to myself.. what was going to happen to the linux project if M$ or an other fictional company was going to sue on shot if you was just trying to release a driver? Well, Linux community was like this "scene". Nothing released, all scared, and who know, maybe a hardware based device for allow the use of linux.
A community is huge till when you can develop something. PS3 scene is dead, maybe forever.
Xbox for example isn't. Tomorrow morning i can start to release stuff , and be a god, and my work will be evolved too.
What people don't want to understand is the core of the problem:
1 If you release something , you will be digged by Sony
2 TB solution is "forced". It cannot be accomplished without a hardware based dongle, as much i can tell.
Basically, either with a cheap programmable dongle, you have to spend money.
Ye, it's "free". But damn, still there is a little problem: how do we do eboots?
Uhm..
Yeah, it's me Dj Barth "One TrueBlue to rule them all, One Browser to find them,
One TB CFW to bring them all and in the Internal HDD bind them
In the Land of BarthMordor where Modding lie"
never figured out the point behind the "TB ONLY costs $10 more, it's not that much" well.. if you're anything like me... a poor, broke, near starving college student... $10 is a shit ton of money, I can stretch $10 into a weeks worth of food (it's not pretty... trust me, it's a miracle my stomach hasn't errupted by now)
That'd be like putting someone down for wearing generic clothes, as opposed to something like.. American Eagle "The shirt ONLY costs $30 more, it's not THAT much"
hell, why do you think kids go ape shit when they get $10 (I mean.. kid as in before 13), if they get $100 my god they think they've hit the jackpot.
I'm pretty sure no one here makes more than $800,000 in a year (after taxes, before bonuses).. guess what, $50,000 to them.. equivalent to the nickel in your pocket, to you $50,000 means your family gets to live pretty decently doesn't it?
Money only seems like it's "not that much" when you have tons of it to dwarf a particular value (I admit, when I worked at a security firm before they downsized and I was pulling in $1500 in a month for working weekends only, yeah $60 would have been a drop in the bucket, $10, wouldn't have even crossed my mind)
Just.. to put things into perspective for the more.. financially gifted of the forums
Well considering I'm not even on unemployment, and a college student, anyone can afford TB. I got one and I'm shit broke. I can barely get me a pack of cigs every other day! SO NO EXCUSES!!! Lol :P.
@Bart - I don't think Sony really give a damn at this point. Otherwise they would have done something about TB. Sony hasn't done anything to TB. So the age old "WAHHHHH I'm scared of Sony." - is just bullshit. It's yet another excuse in a sea of excuses to justify not releasing things.
EDIT: Anyways I can see the same old "I HATEZ DONGLE MANG!" Vs "I LOVZ DONGLZ MANG!" argument is still ongoing on this forum. Jesus, how long before people just say "fuck it, do whatever you want with your system" and just leave it at that?
I mean I take a week or two break every month, if not more and when I come back I still see the same damn arguments.
Last edited by xPreatorianx; 04-14-2012 at 02:48 AM.
http://deviant-generation.com/ - my site. Contact me, Korn, and gDrive. I'm the most active but they do come over to speak to me. Likewise it's always a place to send them a message when you need to. Plus you can meet my graphics team!
Uhm, i guess Tb Team got a good lawyer, and they cannot be sued for this kind of device.
Or (it's fun i know) noone has any barely idea who Tb Team is, and where money go. So Sony doesn't know who need to be sued. During the past sue campaign, if you remember Sony sued resellers and a target with a name, not "someone" who created a Tb dongle.
Yeah, it's me Dj Barth "One TrueBlue to rule them all, One Browser to find them,
One TB CFW to bring them all and in the Internal HDD bind them
In the Land of BarthMordor where Modding lie"
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Originally Posted by gDrive
